lift[ed] up his eyes and saw Abraham and Lazarus across an impassable gulf (Luke 16:23). Marcus Dods (New York: Random House, 1950), 781. That night not one boy was interested in going to hell! Outer darkness is a eternal place of torment reserved for those who are "sons of perdition." According to LDS scripture, this will be a place that "where there is weeping, and wailing, and gnashing of teeth" (Doctrine and Covenants 101:91; also see 133:73). This is what was taught by several important church leaders, including founder Joseph Smith. The "authority" to marry a man to one wife is not the same as the "authority" to marry a man to more than one wife. (2) We believe in allowing our candles to burn for a maximum of four hours at a time. How many people. And I said unto them that our father also saw that the justice of God did also divide the wicked from the righteous; and the brightness thereof was like unto the brightness of a flaming fire, which ascendeth up unto God forever and ever, and hath no end (1 Ne. The question is, what exactly does full knowledge entail? Bold and italics in original). Outer Darkness, I always heard, was reserved for a handful of suckers like Cain and Judas who saw God and/or Jesus and were still rebellious. For example, Alma the Younger was delivered from the intensity of his hellish pain when he cried to the Lord for mercy. (See Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, comp. 16:18). Bad as they may suffer, and awful as their punishment may be, they are not among that group which is to suffer the eternal death and banishment from all influence concerning the power of God (Conference Reports, October 1958, 21). He also saw a pale horse with a rider whose name was Death, and Hell followed with him (Rev. hell.. Your generous support makes the work of MRM possible. In my last post, I claimed that I might be a candidate for outer darkness. 14:18.) The Plan of Salvation kind of negates the reason for missionary work. So lets turn to that bastion of all wisdom that Jeremy Runnells was blamed for not believing and turning to with questions: FAIRMormon: The church has no official position on this issue. The third use occurs in the parable of the talents: "And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth" (Matthew 25:30). The followers of Satan who will suffer with him in eternity. Outer darkness is something which cannot be described, except that it is to be placed beyond the benign and comforting influence of the Spirit of Godbanished entirely from his presence. How unfair is this scenario? For those who once were baptized and confirmed into Mormonism, what is your status? Oh yes they did: after a man has sinned the sin against the Holy Ghost, there is no repentance for himlike many of the apostates of Christof the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. In Christianity, the "exterior darkness" or outer darkness is a place referred to three times in the Gospel of Matthew (8:12, 22:13, and 25:30) into which a person may be "cast out", and where there is "weeping and gnashing of teeth". There are ten references to the lake of fire and brimstone in the Book of Mormon. We found these portrayals to be highly inaccurate. T F According to a church manual, those who never were Mormon could never be sent to Outer Darkness. The first three are referred to as the three degrees of glory, often compared to the sun, the moon, and the stars ( D&C 76:70, 78, 98 ). (See D&C 76:2835, 4448.) Clearly fire is used as a metaphor for sufferingnot a literal fire but a state of misery. Twelfth President Spencer W. Kimball wrote. to become a son of perdition? This page was last edited on 17 September 2010, at 20:26. Outer darkness is something which cannot be described, except that we know that it is to be placed beyond the benign and comforting influence of the Spirit of God-banished entirely from his presence. Possibly but there is no citation there either. Following this introduction will be a discussion of the usage of these termsfirst in the New Testament, then in the Book of Mormon. Outer Darkness is the permanent location of Satan and his followers and the Sons of Perdition, who are not redeemed by the Atonement of Jesus Christ. Those mortals who did join the LDS Church in this lifetime must fit the following criteria to be classified as a son of perdition, with a destiny to outer darkness. If he were ignorant, he could not have become perdition. Are the devils before the world created sons of perdition? What do Mormons believe happened in the pre-existence? ", Learn how and when to remove this template message, https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Outer_darkness&oldid=1136269337, This page was last edited on 29 January 2023, at 15:14. Okay so clearly we have billions of souls who qualify as perdition and go to outer darkness according to one prophet in his personal books and not officially speaking as a prophet. 3:12), the tares are gathered and burned in the fire (Matt. The Book of Mormon teaches that only through the Atonement of Christ can one escape the damnation of hell. Jacob testified that without the infinite atonement all mankind would be forever subject to the awful monster, death and hell, and thus would become like the devil and his angels (2 Ne. Publishing, 19871989), 4:227228. 67, LDS Church Archives. (-Joseph Smith in the King Follett Discourse), There is my definition I used in my previous post. The apostle James taught that the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity . Nephis commentary to his brothers concerning his fathers dream of the tree of life adds interesting insight into the possible meaning of the great gulf Jesus referred to: And I said unto them that it was an awful gulf, which separated the wicked from the tree of life, and also from the saints of God. First, LDS Church scripture uses the term outer darkness to refer to a condition in the spirit world. The Book of Mormon also makes reference to everlasting fire (2 Ne. Everyone but the Sons of Perdition and the devil and his devils, will overcome spiritual death through the Atonement of Jesus Christ. The LDS version of the King James Bible and the Book of Mormon help us to understand that the word black is actually a Hebrew idiom, meaning gloomy, dejected, or spiritual darkness, and has nothing to do with skin tone. The filthy would be more miserable to dwell with God than to dwell in hell, Morm. The Bible teaches that there is a devil and a hell, but the place of hell in the plan of salvation is taught best by the Book of Mormon. The righteousness of some (Abraham or Lazarus) cannot erase the consequences of anothers sins (the rich man). Jacob taught that the lake of fire is not a literal fire but a figurative representation of torment: And assuredly, as the Lord liveth, for the Lord God hath spoken it, and it is his eternal word, which cannot pass away, that they who are righteous shall be righteous still, and they who are filthy shall be filthy still; wherefore, they who are filthy are the devil and his angels; and they shall go away into everlasting fire, prepared for them; and their torment is as a lake of fire and brimstone, whose flame ascendeth up forever and ever and has no end (2 Ne. It clarifies how using an obscure quote does not define LDS doctrines or dogmas. In Mormonism, it depends. In contrast, Book of Mormon references to the second death are embedded in sermons that teach it in context with other essential elements of the plan of salvation. Thus the Book of Mormon does seem to contain a reference to the degrees of glory and outer darkness. Hmmm.. I doubt whether it can be found, from the revelations that are given and the facts as they exist, that there is a female in all the regions of hell. Brigham Young Journal of Discourses 8:222. In The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church), a son of perdition is a person who will not take part in the glory of God in the afterlife. It is doubtful if even Judas, who betrayed Jesus, was sufficiently enlightened to become a son of perdition (Gospel Doctrine,p. 545). 5. The prophet Alma described the disposition of those in outer darkness: And then shall it come to pass, that the spirits of the wicked, yea, who are evilfor behold, they have no part nor portion of the Spirit of the Lord; for behold, they chose evil works rather than good; therefore the spirit of the devil did enter into them, and take possession of their houseand these shall be cast out into outer darkness; there shall be weeping, and wailing, and gnashing of teeth, and this because of their own iniquity, being led captive by the will of the devil (Alma 40:13; cf. Thus, the second death is taught in conjunction with the first death, which came as a consequence of the Fall of Adam and Eve, and also with the Atonement of Jesus Christ, which redeems all of humankind from the first death through resurrection and the second death through repentance. 20:14). (The Miracle of Forgiveness, p. 125). Just one rebellion. Then is the time when their torments shall be as a lake of fire and brimstone, whose flame ascendeth up forever and ever; and then is the time that they shall be chained down to an everlasting destruction, according to the power and captivity of Satan, he having subjected them according to his will. New Testament [ edit] Here, like John and Samuel, Alma equated the second death with the lake of fire and brimstone. You'll need to do a few things to get the most out of your ex-Mormon candle. 185 Heber J. If you want to make the point that Mormon Prophets have said some weird stuff, I am all for it. Meanwhile, I have known many who could be considered fighters against the church, including those who became involved in what could be considered anti-Mormon activities. The apostle John saw the final judgment and wrote of the destiny of the wicked: And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. There are three references to outer darkness in the New Testament, all contained in the Gospel of Matthew. outer darkness - LDS Thought The Seeker: 'Big Love' in big trouble with Mormons - Chicago Tribune King Benjamin and Alma also use the word as to preface their reference to a lake of fire and brimstone (see Mosiah 3:27; Alma 12:17). It also teaches that the Atonement ransoms humankind from physical death through the resurrection and from spiritual death, or hell, through repentance. Jesus warned that those who mocked their brothers by saying Thou fool were in danger of hell fire (Matt. But as with anything, that doesnt stop prophets from talking about it like they knew. Rev. Also, you can read this too. But the children of the kingdom [i.e., covenant breakers] shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth (Matt. (J. Reuben Clark, Jr., Church Leaders and the Scriptures, [original title When Are the Writings or Sermons of Church Leaders Entitled to the Claim of Scripture?] Immortality and Eternal Life: Reflections from the Writings and Messages of President J. Reuben Clark, Jr., Vol, 2, (1969-70): 221; address to Seminary and Institute Teachers, BYU (7 July 1954); reproduced in Church News (31 July 1954); also reprinted in Dialogue 12/2 (Summer 1979): 6881.). 14:1519). Outer darkness is something which cannot be described, except that we know that it is to be placed beyond the benign and comforting influence of the Spirit of God banished entirely from his presence (Doctrines of Salvation2:220). Mormon Wiki, for example has a pretty specific definition of who doesnt go there but lacks any citations: Sons of Perdition as those few souls who have been born on this earth who have been made partakers of Gods power, yet suffered themselves through the power of the devil to be overcome, and to deny the truth and defy God by denying the Holy Spirit after having received it, denying the Only Begotten Son and put him to an open shame. They openly and knowingly fight against God and Christ, having sided with Satan even though they had once tasted of full gospel knowledge by the power of the Holy Ghost.There are those who fear that they have committed the unpardonable sin, because they have not been faithful members of the Church. That last part of the previous sentence is very important. Generally, the outer darkness is thought to be hell; however, many Christians associate the outer darkness more generally as a place of separation from God or from the metaphorical "wedding banquet" that Jesus is expected to have upon his Second Coming. Though we have this clarity in the scriptures that we carry with us daily, few members are aware that this insight is there." As a young boy, I attended a two-week Christian camp. The word hell is mentioned twenty-three times in the New Testament: fifteen times in the Gospels, twice in the book of Acts, once each in James and 2 Peter, and four times in the book of Revelation. Through his Atonement, Resurrection, and ministry in the spirit world, Christ provided a bridge by which repentant souls could cross the gulf from hell to spiritual freedom. Why practically nobody-including you, former Mormon-will ever end up in Temporary abode of the wicked. The second possible sons of perdition are mortals. Just one sin. This is in contrast to the VAST MAJORITY OF PEOPLE, who will receive a kingdom of glory after the Final Judgment, and enter into one of three degrees of glory after the resurrection: celestial, terrestrial, or telestial kingdoms. I can give you more than plenty of examples of that. This website is not owned by or affiliated with The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (sometimes called the Mormon or LDS Church). However, I think the breakdown I have above is accurate because outer darkest is a place of permanence for the filthy. Meanwhile, sixth President Joseph F. Smith, also taught that a full knowledge of the truth is necessary, adding that not even Judas Iscariotthe betrayer of Jesuswill be destined for Outer Darkness: It is probable that only personages who have acquired similar full knowledge, who willfully and deliberately deny the truth, when they know it to be the truth, can commit the unpardonable sin and become sons of perdition. Source: https://www.lds.org/scriptures/gs/sons-of-perdition. It is taught that, in the pre-mortal life, they chose to follow a plan proposed by Satan, rather than that presented by God the Father. To become a church member, baptism and confirmation are required. The Sons of Perdition are those who have lived as mortal men and women on the earth, have had the heavens opened to them and received a certain knowledge that Jesus is the Christ, and then have rejected the Savior, "having denied the Only Begotten Son of the Father, having crucified him unto themselves and put him to an open shame" (Doctrine and Covenants 76:34-35; see also Doctrine and Covenants 76:3133, 3637). One fire certainly shall be the lot of both. [4]. Clear as mud. . Do "apostates" go to outer darkness or telestial kingdom? But what is light? Each person must reap the harvest of the seeds sown in this life. Mormon doctrines are often contradictory and inconsistent. But unofficial prophets speaking at BYU or in their own books say no, except Brigham in the Journal of Discourses which is unofficial. You are taking quotes that are not Mormon Doctrine. Mormonism. They will live in eternal darkness, torment, and misery with Satan and his angels forever. And remember you can be excommunicated for asking church leaders to give solid answers so trust the apologists who say to only trust the prophets on matters like this. Plagiarism and The Globe a comparative analysis, The Shunning Key by bwv549 - Mormon Bandwagon, https://www.lds.org/scriptures/gs/sons-of-perdition, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Son_of_perdition_(Mormonism), https://www.fairmormon.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/What_is_Mormon_Doctrine.pdf, https://www.fairmormon.org/answers/Plan_of_salvation/Sons_of_Perdition/Can_women_be_%22Sons_of_Perdition%22, LDS Church and Same Sex Marriage Timeline, The Pump LDS film and the original source, Ethan Smith, Hyrum Smith, Oliver Cowdery, Solomon Spaulding connections. . Outer darkness - MormonWiki.org At the end of the twenty years, the knife would be withdrawn and again stabbed into us, with the resulting excruciating pain lasting another twenty years; this process would then be repeated for all eternity. Outer darkness is a eternal place of torment reserved for those who are sons of perdition. According to LDS scripture, this will be a place that where there is weeping, and wailing, and gnashing of teeth (Doctrine and Covenants 101:91; also see 133:73). Even if a person had once been a Latter-day Saint, Kimball said it still was practically impossible for a human to become a son of perdition: The sin against the Holy Ghost requires such knowledge that it is manifestly impossible for the rank and file to commit such a sin (Miracle of Forgiveness, p. 123) (Doctrine and Covenants Student Manual Religion 324 and 325, p. 161). Even Nazi dictator Adolph Hitler will get nothing less than the telestial kingdom since he was never baptized/confirmed into the church; work was done in proxy for him in the London, England temple several decades ago. They are sons of perdition because, Having denied the Holy Spirit after having received it, and having denied the Only Begotten Son of the Father, having crucified him unto themselves and put him to open shame (D. & C. 76:35). Mormons believe that there Prophets are fallible and in no way perfect. Mormons believe we existed before coming to Earth. Outer Darkness Definition - Mormonism Research Ministry So we can clearly state no women are Sons of Perdition in outer darkness. Wilford Woodruff in a meeting with the apostles, 1893 D. Michael Quinn, The Mormon Hierarchy: Extensions of Power (Salt Lake City, Utah: Signature Books, 1997) p. 795. That being said, I don't think it really matters at the end of the day, because if it is all real, I want to stay clear away from anyone who the Church says deserves the Celestial Kingdom. Add an RSC shortcut to this device's Homescreen, In the menu, scroll past any icons and tap. Additionally it provides helpful commentary on New Testament passages concerning hell. Those who followed Lucifer in his rebellion in the premortal life and those who in mortality sin against the Holy Ghost are sons of perdition. 5:30). 8:1112). One memorable night, he instructed us about the pains of hell. He asked us to imagine being stabbed and having that initial intense pain of the insertion of the knife last for twenty years. Return to the Crash Course Mormonism Index. They are the celestial kingdom, the terrestrial kingdom, the telestial kingdom, and outer darkness. Horror Short Film "Outer Darkness" | ALTER | Online Premiere There are two categories for those who should be considered sons of perdition. Today, interpretation of these "outer darkness" verses are a subset of Protestant discussion on hell and annihilationism. This extreme punishment will not be given to any but the sons of perdition. They place themselves beyond the power of repentance and beyond the mercies of God. With the sons of perdition, however, even this blessing is denied. Johns references to the second death testify of its existence but do not offer any explanatory information that instructs those readers who do not already understand the doctrine. True, some former Mormons have expressed doubts and wondered if the church might possibly be true, which is a completely natural response after having left the one true church. If they decided they made a mistake because they still believed the church were true, they would be more apt to rejoin it rather than stay excommunicated and fight against it. There are possible characteristics of a son of perdition. According to the churchs website: The followers of Satan who will suffer with him in eternity. The punishment which is given from my hand is endless punishment, D&C 19:10-12. You quoted a website (Wikipedia) which is not doctrine and another website (FAIRMormon) which directly says it is not doctrine. The second death is a second separation from God, not because of Adams transgression (the first death) but because of ones own failure to repent of personal sin. outer darkness | Some Mormon Stuff Yea, behold, this death bringeth to pass the resurrection, and redeemeth all mankind from the first deaththat spiritual death; for all mankind, by the fall of Adam being cut off from the presence of the Lord, are considered as dead, both as to things temporal and to things spiritual. Any person who inherits one of the . But Mormons do not believe that just because a Prophet said it, that it makes it true. Those in this second group will be resurrected from the dead but will not be redeemed from the second (spiritual) death and cannot dwell in a kingdom of glory (D&C 88:32, 35). lucifer. Cannot be saved at the last day; except W.W. Phelps who was classified as such by Joseph and then redeemed, and we should only trust prophets on the matter because they dont conflict, unless they do. And thats why men alone get, I mean need the priesthood. Banishment from the glory of God. One of the messages of the Book of Mormon is that people sometimes lose the desire to repent. [Discourse given on 20 January 1895.] 21:8). so we will be able to realistically discuss the likelihood that a person who left the church could ever end up in Outer Darkness. Mormons believe that only a Son of Perdition will go to Outer Darkness, their version of most Christian religions understanding of Hell. 5:22), and the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone of which the apostle John wrote (Rev. Therefore the Lord used Satans evil acts to accomplish his own purposes. Circumcision. First of all, to become a son of perdition, you need to have been baptized into the church, then turned from the religion in order to fight against it, all the while knowing it is true. Comparison Chart - Mormonism and Christianity - Apologetics The Book of Mormon presents several significant insights concerning the lake of fire and brimstone of which John spoke. Lets go to modern revelation: that there would be no daughters of perdition. Joseph F. Smith Stan Larsen, ed., A Ministry of Meetings: The Diaries of Rudger Clawson, (Salt Lake City, Utah: Smith Associates and Signature Books, 1993) p. 560, Somebody called me up on the telephone and asked if there were daughters of perdition. After inspecting the intruder, the king instructed his servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth (Matt. 25:30). 20:14), or the outer darkness (Matt. 10 reasons why a person ought to consider becoming a Christian. Another name for Outer Darkness is hell. In this context, outer darkness is the spirit prison, or that part of the spirit world that the wicked inhabit prior to their resurrection. Making the LDS Church Slightly Better: A Members Wish List, You continue to fight against the true church, Those spirits who rebelled against God in the preexistence are the original sons of perdition. So I thought Id get it all out there in one simple post. With the exception of those who left the church and later rejoined, every other former Mormon left the church because they believed it is not true. Yet I never was baptized and confirmed into this church. In short, Outer Darkness is eternal torture. [2] For a discussion of the New Testament words that translate hell, see The Oxford Companion to the Bible, ed. Making the LDS Church Slightly Better: A Members Wish List. In the D&C, the definition of those who go to Outer Darkness is stated as: the end thereof, neither the place thereof, nor their torment, no man knows; Neither was it revealed, neither is, neither will be revealed unto man, except to them who are made partakers thereof;Nevertheless, I, the Lord, show it by vision unto many, but straightway shut it up again; Wherefore, the end, the width, the height, the depth, and the misery thereof, they understand not, neither any man except those who are ordained unto this condemnation (D&C 76:45-48). Hell is a place prepared for the devil and his angels, D&C 29:37-38. A lot of people wanted a source on that. Smith told a general conference audience: I think I am safe in saying that no man can become a Son of Perdition until he has known the light. Who goes to Outer Darkness, a handy guide - Exploring Mormonism He wrote: But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death (Rev. Thank you! it could be a reference for the resurrected who gain inheritance on other worlds but without the fulness of As with anything in Mormon doctrine, theres a lot of confusion, contradictory information and just all around ignoring a topic that should be as simple as asking a question and getting an answer. They have said things much stranger and I am sure you know of them. And if they be evil they are consigned to an awful view of their own guilt and abominations, which doth cause them to shrink from the presence of the Lord into a state of misery and endless torment, from whence they can no more return; therefore they have drunk damnation to their own souls. 9:4. Who will partake of it, and what is the nature of the eternal torment? According to tenth President Joseph Fielding Smith. For most, outer darkness, the lake of fire, and the second death have an end, but for the sons of perdition these states continue eternally. Over the 30 years in Christian ministry, I have met many former Mormons who once believed in Mormonism, but none has ever confessed that they still believe Mormonism to be true. It is impossible for those who never joined Mormonism to become sons of perdition. In a general conference talk, Joseph Fielding Smith further explained that. While John could be referring to the sons of perdition in this passage, the specific sins he identified are characteristic of those who will suffer in hell but, after experiencing their part in the lake of fire, will be released from their torment and be resurrected to a telestial glory (see D&C 76:10312).